#75. Romans 8:6-8 - The Carnal Mind (Conciliation Series, Part LII)

Part IV: God’s Conciliation, Confirmed

For the disposition of flesh is death, yet the disposition of the spirit is life and peace, because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able.

Whenever myself and Seth Fahlenkamp make a video in Christ, there is… I’d guess, a 30% chance that we will receive a comment from a woman.

…No, not just any ol’ woman who happens to come by. Just one woman. I do not recall her name just now, but I don’t think that matters, for the purposes of this article. We will call her “The Carnal Mind Lady,” because I feel that this would best highlight her theology. The Carnal Mind Lady absolutely hates the notion that sin is still in your flesh, and your sinful actions in effect of it. She hates concordant study in the text, she hates the Concordant Version, she hates A.E. Knoch’s doctrines, she hates the Unsearchable Riches, and, most egregiously, she hates some very critical statements that the God of the Greek Scriptures makes.

The verses we have been considering over the past couple of articles contain one such statement. I would like to read, if you will, the KJV’s translation of Romans 8:5-8. I highly recommend reading a false translation as we move along anyway, but again, I must present you with all of the facts before we continue. Observe:

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The theory, according to The Carnal Mind Lady, operates under the assumption that an unsaved man can’t say, “With the mind I am slaving for God’s law” (Rom. 7:25.) We did already cover this assumption when we considered Romans 7’s end, so I won’t waste too much time on that topic here, but as a brief reminder: it is your flesh that is corrupted by sin – not your internal self. Yet this assumption is “proven” by The Carnal Mind Lady in these verses here, as they apparently state that the “carnal mind is enmity against God.”

The Carnal Mind Lady further argues that “the law of my mind,” back in Romans 7:23, must be the mind of a saint (it’s not… it’s the morality of your inner man, irrespective of sainthood, as we covered.)

This is what we call an “error.” Instantly, the word difference between “mind” and “disposition” becomes critical to your understanding of Sin’s operation. “Mind” is nous. The word nous is used in 7:23, 25, and is properly translated “mind” in most English versions. Yet, like I said before, the word phronema is “disposition,” because God would not use two completely different words to mean the exact same thing, in the same passage.

This means that The Carnal Mind Lady, for all her shouting in the comments section, has fallen prey to yet another mistranslation which sin has used to snare man’s mind. The nous, the “mind,” can be changed, yes (repentance is a sound example of this, but deciding to eat Froot Loops instead of Cinnamon Toast Crunch is a more fun example, I’ve found.) The mind is not a concept – it is a noun, in you, that grows and regresses and shifts. It starts as one thing when you’re born, and does become something else by the time you die. It can be disqualified (Rom. 1:28,) vain (Eph. 4:17,) fleshly (Col. 2:18,) or renewed (Rom. 12:2.)

But dispositions? Those don’t “change.” A disposition is a disposition. You can cease adhering to a disposition, which means you have changed, but the disposition itself does not change. It’s impossible for the disposition of the flesh to suddenly “be” the disposition of the spirit. The disposition of the flesh is unalterably bad, and the disposition of the spirit is unalterably good.

There are two separate dispositions that you, as a saint, can have – one according to the flesh, or one according to the spirit. If you have one according to the flesh, there must be a judgment and a change (1 Cor. 11:28-32,) so that you learn of God’s peace with you, and are thus reconciled, walking in spirit, not longer condemned with the world (Rom. 8:1, 1 Cor. 11:32.)

Thus, you can begin to see the error that The Carnal Mind Lady presents. She says, “The carnal mind is enmity to God, thus the mind that is gratified by God’s law is the saint’s mind.” But this is poor reasoning. Look at Romans 8:7 (properly translated) again:

…the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able.

It’s not possible for the disposition of the flesh to change to be gratified by God’s law. You are, currently, in the flesh. Whether you are a saint or not, the flesh will stay the same. It has Sin in it, and thus contains enmity. This is true both of Saul, and Paul. The “amount” of enmity in a saint is the same as that of a sinner, because we are speaking, not of a “carnal mind,” but of the “flesh’s disposition.” If we were speaking of the “mind,” then The Carnal Mind Lady would have a point! But the word “mind” is nowhere to be found in Romans 8:5-7.

The disposition of the flesh or the spirit is more powerful than the mind. Disposition is stronger than mind. The disposition of the flesh beat the man within in Romans 7, and the disposition of the spirit is divine. Both powers are stronger than man’s mind. The saint begins in accord with the flesh, yet as the mind is renewed, they are saved to walk in accord with the spirit.

There goes the false doctrine that The Carnal Mind Lady adheres to. The phrase “carnal mind” does not appear at all in the Greek Scriptures, and we would do well to live in accord with the actual text. We will now consider the next verse, to bury this doctrine for good.

Now those who are in flesh are not able to please God.

When we last spoke of “being in the flesh,” it was in Romans 7:5, when we read that the passions of sins were operating in our flesh – reigning over us when we were under law.

When we were “in the flesh,” we were not yet called out. The saint, like I’ve said, is in the spirit, not in the flesh. If you have not been given anything from the spirit, then all you know is the flesh and its ways. When you are in the flesh, then, it holds the fact that God has not yet started with your personal salvation (as seen in Rom. 3:21-23.)

Now that you know of the flesh’s enmity to God, you know that it if you carry the flesh’s disposition, you are unable to please God, because the flesh’s disposition is death (Rom. 1:28-32.)

That said, we must keep in mind the point of the passage, which is to contrast the disposition of the spirit with that of the flesh. The reality is that a saint can carry either of these two dispositions and still be saved, because we are speaking of a walk, not your salvation. The justification by faith is what starts your salvation – not the walk itself, which is effectual. You, as a saint, can always please God, because you, unlike the rest of the world, have the spirit of Christ in you (Rom. 6:3, 8:9.) You have been internally joined with the spirit of Christ, and what did Christ do? He never displeased His Father. He always effected His Father’s will. This is a call for you to learn His disposition, yes – but it is also a relief, as the proof of morality is not on you. If He is fulfilling the just requirement of the law in you (Rom. 8:3,) then it follows that you are the product, not the Engineer. 

You may be wondering, yet again, why many religious folk are often good at disciplining their flesh – working hard to honor their parents, working hard not to murder, working hard not to covet, or take the Lord’s name in vain, or steal. These people are often good at maintaining a moral high ground, and, when confronted with this in relation to Paul’s evangel, most immediately get defensive (to justify themselves.) “Why would you point this out as if I’m doing a bad thing?” they ask. “I’m doing what my Lord asked me to do!” They immediately rely on their action first – not their Lord.

It is this that God takes issue with, under law. “Try your best, and still repent.” That is Christian dogma. Keep repenting, keep trying, keep changing your “carnal mind!” Keep coming into church every Sunday and tell your friends how you disciplined your flesh this week! Even if God tells you the only outcome (Rom. 3:19-20,) just… keep going anyway! That’s the best man can think of??

By leaning into their own act, apart from being joined into Christ and justified by faith, as we have been studying in Romans, and learning to walk in Christ in effect, we have instead a borderline cultish devotion to subjecting the flesh – right before our very eyes!

For the saint, we do not have a “desire to please God in the midst of our carnal mind.” We are a new creation in Christ (2 Cor. 5:14-17,) made for pleasing God (Eph. 1:5-6.) Paul reveals here that those in flesh are not able to please God. Well… what’s the alternative? Why, those in spirit, of course! These calls to action that Paul gets into at the end of each letter are not for naught! Paul states that we must be walking and pleasing God (1 Thess. 4:1.) This is encouragement from Paul, through our brother Christ, Who always pleased His Father (John 8:29,) and does not attempt to please Himself (exemplified by His graphic murder; and also Rom. 15:3.)

Of course, again, God is not going to leave us out to dry. He explains things that please Him (Rom. 12:1, 14:8, Eph. 5:9-10, Phil. 4:18, 2 Tim. 2:4.) When we get to these verses, we will give them our full consideration, with ambition to please our Father (2 Cor. 5:9.) But it all starts in Romans’ explanation of the matter. You please Him by dwelling in spirit – not in flesh. And one of my favorite parts about this is that those who are dwelling in spirit are continually given assurance that we are pleasing Him (Gal. 1:10, 1 Thess. 2:4!)

With this, we can conclude: Wearing rags or pantsuits make no difference to God, as those who seek to justify themselves with their acts are in the flesh. To attempt to dress nicely for Him (say, at a church?) is not pleasing, as God does not state that dressing the flesh pleases Him in spirit. The statement itself is quite simple – in the flesh, you quite literally cannot please God, no matter how hard you try. It’s the principle – living in the spirit, that pleases, and God chooses as He does who is in spirit and who is in flesh.

So stop trying so hard in flesh. The “carnal mind” theology is an excuse. It disguises the word “disposition,” remains painfully (and dare I say purposefully) ignorant to the mistranslation, and those in flesh delight in using the verse to prioritize their self-restraint against sin first. It’s a sorry doctrine that has no legs to stand on, and, as it both twists what God said, and dwells in enmity to Him, it does not please God.

- GerudoKing